Comic for Monday, August 16th, 2021

Aug16

by PastUtopia on August 16, 2021 at 11:53 pm

Chapter: Chapter 16

Characters: Dendrin, Tyler, Vium

Location: Far Side of Utopia

Comic! Sorry it was late.

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Discussion (33) ¬

EnderDDT

August 24, 2021, 3:56 am | # | Reply

@PastUtopia

“We aren’t making DEALS. We are TAKING prisoners.”

Shouldn’t the word that is focused on either be the action verb or the result on both sentences? This seems like it would make sense since he is contrasting what will happen (and what he doesn’t want) if the exiles surrender to the other families, VS what he wants to have happen. So either “making DEALS, taking PRISONERS” or “MAKING deals, TAKING prisoners”.
- Some Ed
  
  August 25, 2021, 1:48 pm | # | Reply
  
  It feels authentic to me the way it’s portrayed. Real people don’t always speak their own idea of perfect, let alone yours. I’d have made the same emphasis.
  
  It would feel odd to me if Tyler was saying, “We aren’t MAKING deals. We’re TAKING prisoners.” Emphasizing both nouns could work.
  
  But I think by the emphasis Past has given Tyler, in the first statement, the focus is on the object. In the latter statement, the rogue family members involved aren’t really important. What’s important is that they’re not treated as important. They’re just taken.
  
  There’s an implication that Elmon is not being treated as a family head here, but as a criminal. It feels to me that emphasizing both would do that less.
Josh S.

August 23, 2021, 9:54 pm | # | Reply

We will look forward to next week’s installment eagerly!

Please take care of yourself.
Dave Howe

August 23, 2021, 7:30 pm | # | Reply

It’s done when it’s done.
We will look forward to it whenever 🙂
PastUtopia

August 23, 2021, 9:13 am | # | Reply

Comic will be a little late this week; probably end of day tomorrow or tuesday.
- PastUtopia
  
  August 23, 2021, 8:08 pm | # | Reply
  
  I hate to do this, but I’m going to postpone this week. My schedule is pretty full, and if I try to get a comic this week it’ll probably keep getting kicked a day at time, so I’m just going to aim for next week at this point.
  - Glider
    
    August 23, 2021, 10:29 pm | # | Reply
    
    No worries, no sweat. But I’m going to use this space to self promote shamelessly. Because I’m awesome.
    - Glider
      
      August 27, 2021, 1:28 pm | # | Reply
      
      Amazing levels of awesome. Like next level awesome.
      
      So much amazing awesomeness that everyone clearly agrees.
      
      I don’t think it’s being superfluous to point out that I awesome like few people have ever awesomed. Really, it’s amazing.
      - Tgape
        
        August 28, 2021, 5:44 am | # | Reply
        
        It is. It’s literally so amazing that most of us are speechless. Even I was speechless in the face of you admitting your sheer level of awesomeness.
        
        And now, having said that, I’m once again out of words.
        
        Glider
        
        August 28, 2021, 10:07 am | # | Reply
        
        The perfection of your words is complete. Each precisely balanced with meaning and intent. The impact of word on top of word is exact, and the collective goal exquisitely achieved.
        
        Out of words, but only because your objective has been indisputably conquered. Such is the very nature of being Tgape.
Josh S

August 21, 2021, 12:44 pm | # | Reply

I don’t think so, EnderDDT. A couple reasons:

For all that Ila turned to Arkady for help with the all important scarf acquisition, Naomi seems to have more than a little value to Ila, as well. I could be misreading it, but I don’t think Arkady is higher in Ila’s caring system, just more vulnerable than Naomi is

The other is that for all that Peter seems to appreciate Ila’s existence and is happy to take advantage of it, Ila is not central to Peter’s needs. He has a tether on Ila’s existence already – not as a tie to humanity, just to sticking to the proper order of things.

That’s Mium.

(And boy is Ila going to be jealous when she catches on to just how many places Mium can play at once!)
- EnderDDT
  
  August 24, 2021, 4:08 am | # | Reply
  
  Ila doesn’t value Naomi as much since she doesn’t see her being nice as being anything more than Naomi being “incapable of being mean to cute things”. I believe, though feel free to prove me wrong, that she doesn’t see Naomi as a real friend (brought up during the episode where she went to save Arkady and MIUM says that the attempt isn’t worth the trouble.
  
  That said, I agree that Peter didn’t really see Ila as anything more than a curiosity, at least when he first heard about her; but that could easily change depending on why he values his MIUM experiment: Is it the “AI” part that is important, the “SMAI” that is important, and how much does Ila fit either definition?
  
  Still, can you imagine Arkady’s panic if he was told that Peter puts the second highest value on his survival of anyone on Palindra… over and above even himself? Naomi had a sudden start when she figured out her importance in the grand scheme of things, can you imagine Arkady doing any better when faced with something far greater?
  - Some Ed
    
    August 25, 2021, 2:18 pm | # | Reply
    
    Peter feels pretty goal oriented to me, and while he doesn’t exactly seem sociopathic to me, he doesn’t really make connections with most people. I feel like Peter values Mium most because he’s the best friend Peter ever made, in the literal sense, and also how important Mium is for Peter’s plans. Peter has contingencies for Mium going rogue, but they’re not at all fun.
    
    For Peter, I think Ila feels like more of a wild card. He respects that Naomi adopted Ila into their made family, but he doesn’t entirely know what to make of her. He may be insanely good at adapting to changes in plans, but you don’t just incorporate someone as powerful and apparently impressionable as Ila into your giant schemes that quickly, especially if there’s the slightest chance they haven’t really aligned with you.
    
    In Ila’s case, it seems quite plausible to me that she’s not really aligned with Peter. I think it’d be foolish for her to attempt to go back to Mir as a loyal AI, but I do not know how deep Mir’s programming really was. Or was it Hadrian’s programming? Real people frequently go back to their abusers, so even without any formal contingency code, it’s conceivable that Ila could still be holding out for figuring out how to beat Mium and then going back to Mir triumphantly.
    
    Even without that, someone who can be present a couple places at once, can crack into pretty much any systems Peter wants to get into, can manage Peter’s extensive network of already cracked systems for him, and can take down any mage Peter wants taken down seems like a much more valuable asset than someone who can six spell autocast six times in parallel hard enough and fast enough to mage harder than most mages. Maybe Ila will one day start dabbling with computer cracking, but at the moment, it doesn’t seem like it’s even registered with her that’s an interesting domain.
    
    I’m not sure Peter put such a high value on Arkady’s survival. I’m pretty sure the survival and liberty of Miko, Mari, Kally, and Naomi all rate higher than Arkady’s survival. I think he’d also put several others of his family, Kally’s family, and Naomi’s family over Arkady. But most of those can take care of themselves pretty well and none of them were in harms way.
    
    I also have the impression that Peter’s more confident in his personal survival chances than Miko is in Peter’s personal survival chances. It’s not that Peter doesn’t value his own survival, but rather, he feels he has that well in hand. Peter doesn’t show off what he would actually do when his survival really is threatened – I think in large part to keep anyone who might want to take things there guessing. But that doesn’t mean he can’t do a bit more than float a pen.
Dave Howe

August 18, 2021, 12:56 pm | # | Reply

New posts are never late, but they are sometimes not fashionably early 😀
Dave Howe

August 18, 2021, 7:50 am | # | Reply

Be afraid, be VERY afraid; fear will keep you alive…
Samantha Fuller

August 17, 2021, 4:54 pm | # | Reply

I just realized that the item(s) that Dendrin is to be paid in are probably just military arms, probably military grade autocasters rather than an extremely destructive devise like a thermonuclear bomb as speculated earlier. And the reason that Tokiwa ask him to try not to use them on IDS controlled worlds was mostly because she did not want them traced to IDS stockpiles. That might also also be the reason Dendrin thought that it might be a trick offer.

As for why he still needs them, the suitcase probably contained a cash advance and documents, with the balance due on completion of contract. Dendrin might consider the attack on Davids plane and whatever plot Tom heroically foiled to be good faith attempts to fulfill the hit and worth the advance. However smuggling a person off world is easier and safer than having anther go at the warden.

And for Vim’s part requisitioning military grade hardware violates one of Mium’s directives but not a core directive that might result in him loosing access to Querry’s contribution of his code. Dendrin betraying him might save having to activate or build another AA system.
- Glider
  
  August 17, 2021, 9:02 pm | # | Reply
  
  Panel 4 suggests that Vium is expecting to kill Dendrin rather than pay him, and that if Dendrin betrays him early enough it will save the trouble of arranging the scenario where killing Dendrin doesn’t violate a directive.
  
  I expect Vium will still make a good faith effort to pay him. If nothing else, it means Vium will end up with a dead Dendrin AND payment. Worst case scenario, Dendrin walks the line and avoids assassination, Vium is able to pay. Bring able to pay appears to be a directive that Mium is trying to instill in Ila, after all.
  - Jim
    
    August 17, 2021, 9:37 pm | # | Reply
    
    Panel 3 also shows Vium provoking Dendrin by calling him “Mr. prosaic large shit”. Yup, Dendrin’s days are numbered. A guess is that the final moment will be after Vium is transported off-world.
    - Ferrus
      
      August 17, 2021, 10:30 pm | # | Reply
      
      He’s combining Mium’s two favorite things: Nicknames, and proportional responses. Normally his nicknames are sort of harmless and not directly insulting, but as Dendrin directly insulted him, he directly insulted Dendrin back.
  - Anthony
    
    August 17, 2021, 11:16 pm | # | Reply
    
    Alternately, if Dendrin betrays him he doesn’t need to pay him. I assume whatever Dendrin wants is at least moderately inconvenient to get.
    - Dave Howe
      
      August 18, 2021, 12:58 pm | # | Reply
      
      Sure, but convenient though that would be, it has to be balanced by the inconvenience of finding another way offworld (unless he can kill Mr Murder Boots but keep his Gate…)
  - Old Dan
    
    August 23, 2021, 1:33 pm | # | Reply
    
    Not at all, (In the first place, does Vium have intentions?) But begging this question, if Dendrin doesn’t betray Vium of what use to him will his payment be?
    
    As words pass through the doors that open and close on various futures, Dendrin will perceive that his futures in helping this kid are uncomfortably limited.
- Dave Howe
  
  August 18, 2021, 8:11 am | # | Reply
  
  I am reminded that cutting edge technology NOT YET in use by the military but significantly more destructive, is a loophole Mium has used in the past 😀
msdisme

August 17, 2021, 2:16 pm | # | Reply

Panel 3(?) ‘if you are bluffing’ instead of buffing
Charidan

August 17, 2021, 7:07 am | # | Reply

I would just like to take a moment to appreciate the beauty of of the moniker “prosaic large shit”.
willis

August 17, 2021, 3:38 am | # | Reply

Panel 3: ’cause your LIFE isn’t enough to cover collateral if you’re bluffing. Panel 8: I agree, and i strongly suspect Elmon will not be there.
- Old Dan
  
  August 17, 2021, 9:58 am | # | Reply
  
  Panel 2: Vium: Bubble 1 sentence: Has no verb. Fortunately Glider has provided a verb.
  
  Panel 3: Dendrin: Bubble 1: “Buffing” is “to burnish, or to polish” also can mean “to make an RPG character more powerful,” (which is probably what Vium is doing.) willis suggests a different word.
  
  willis: I disagree with your interpretation of Panel 8: Tyler: Bubble 1: Sentence 1. I think the subject is “I and Elmon”.
Glider

August 17, 2021, 2:58 am | # | Reply

Panel two, bubble one, “…possibilities IS an…”

Thank you, Past. I do enjoy seeing Tyler’s story touch this one again.
EnderDDT

August 17, 2021, 12:42 am | # | Reply

I just realized something. In Peter’s mind the most important person in the world is Miko, mainly because she is the tether to humanity for MIUM by way of being his designated “friend”. So does that make Arcady the second most important person in the world due to his recognized “friendship” with Ila?
- Tgape
  
  August 22, 2021, 4:41 am | # | Reply
  
  I believe Miko is Mium’s Eidos key. Without Miko, Mium would be easier to take down. At least, if Peter wanted to take Mium down.
  
  That having been said, Miko is one of Peter’s two tethers to humanity. If she dies because of somebody, Peter’s going to be encouraging Mium to go after them, rather than trying to get Mium to not go crazy. I think it’s also highly likely he’d be turning his implant back on, so that Mium could use his Eidos key.
  
  (To be clear, Kally’s the other one. Peter likes Naomi, but if someone were to end either Miko or Kally, I don’t think Peter would be asking Naomi for her moral judgement on his response. Cities to ash as needed.)
  - EnderDDT
    
    August 24, 2021, 1:21 pm | # | Reply
    
    I don’t think that her status as the source of MIUM’s edos key is why she is important. Every time the subject has come up it is because of her ‘friendship’ with MIUM that makes her so important. It apparently has something to do with SMAI eventually going crazy and preventing it. If all they needed was an Edos key from someone with an implant there are a LOT of sources of that on Central and I don’t doubt that Peter could get an implant and get it in someone on Palindra if needed. Naomi would be a good option for that, as she is already working as MIUM’s moral compass.
    
    I agree that she counts as one of Peter’s tethers to humanity, but his “family and friends” exception makes me think he has a few others that he would go a little bit crazy for; mainly anyone who has made it into that select group of family and friends. I’m not sure how crazy he would get if each was taken down, his uncle being one example of someone he would be upset about but likely not burn a city for, but they all are important to him.
    - Tgape
      
      August 26, 2021, 1:31 am | # | Reply
      
      My apologies on the length; you made a number of thought provoking statements in your reply, and I’ve thought about it at length. I wasn’t smart enough to take notes, so this may be a bit scattered. Some of this was stuff I had in mind when I made my above post, but there were several significant gaps where I’d not thought at all – for example, who might already have an Eidos card implant that could be used.
      
      I don’t think the need is just “an Eidos key attached to an implant.” There’s an on/off switch and a flow of data, which suggests that there’s room to be a sanity check even beyond the observable social level.
      
      Peter might able to give someone else an implant, but I don’t think he’d be willing to. If he knew someone who actually *wanted* one, it might be a different story. It’s possible he’s even gotten someone an implant as preparation for this sort of contingency.
      
      That having been said, I doubt it’s that simple. At best, getting one of these implants is probably like getting a new limb. You may not remember the last time that happened for you, since most people get them all at once at a very early age. But it takes years to really learn how to use them.
      
      It’s my impression that one comic year ago, Peter hadn’t yet “gone rogue”. It’s possible that he and Kally were on Palindra, maybe even in Malsa, but they had not been there very long. Query was still limited to one terminal, Peter hadn’t worked for Avon, F8 was probably not even “completed” yet and determined to be a failure.
      
      MYM did exist, Peter probably knew about MYM, but interactions thus far had been pretty limited. Hadrian was still in charge of however much of AVon he’d been in charge of, including MYM, and as much as it irked her, Mir was organizationally subordinate to him, needed his help on at least some of her work, and very much wanted to change that situation. (It’s unclear whether that help was more extensive than him authorizing resources for her. But whatever it was, it wasn’t something she considered acceptable.)
      
      Oh, and most importantly, Miko was confined to a wheelchair and not doing very well beyond that. It’s possible she was dying, but she was in some real sense broken at the very least.
      
      …
      
      OK, Peter being Peter, and valuing Miko as much as he does, it’s likely that there is *somebody* out there who already has an implant thanks to Peter. He wouldn’t have wanted to test a completely new thing on his cousin and only real confidant. (Kally was in his life at that point, but she did not and still does not really understand Peter enough to be his confidant.)
      
      But it’s questionable whether that person is friendly to Peter. My guess is, it was actually Mir, who hated her situation enough she was willing to grasp any straws. What Peter came up with using MYM’s computing power guided by Query was stable for long enough for Peter to try it on Miko, and then it went horribly wrong.
      
      Mium’s likely not able to access Mir’s Eidos key, unless he already is. But it’s also questioned whether she actually still has one. If Mium was accessing Mir’s Eidos key routinely, team Peter probably wouldn’t have been surprised by Ila when they first met up.
      
      If Mir is the person who Peter and Mium experimented on before fixing Miko, then Peter’s even less likely to want to try that on somebody else.
      
      If Peter gave someone an implant and then had Mium start using their Eidos key through it right away, they’d probably have no sense at all regarding Mium’s usage, and they wouldn’t work as any kind of check on Mium apart from whatever they were emotionally.
      
      By a completely neutral assessment, it might be slightly better than Peter offering his own Eidos key, in that it would still have an independent Peter around to attempt to deal with Mium after the revenge business was settled. However, Peter’s pride would prevent him from accepting his chance of retaining his independence through all of that business would be as low as it would actually be, so he’d come up with a different assessment.
      
      Someone else from Central… that could be Mari. We’ve not learned anything about her to suggest she’s not a trusted member of Team Peter or that she would not be a candidate for that. She’s been entrusted with a Query on a Stick, so there’s a bit of evidence she might already be a member or might be getting inducted as we type.
      
      I think there was some suggestion that Mari might be older than Peter. It’s my understanding they started the practice of making kids into weapons on the very young, so it’s possible she missed out due to her age.
      
      If Mari is younger than Peter and Miko, then she may have not gotten an implant because of how poorly it worked on Miko. Or maybe she got a newer version.
      
      The little we’ve seen of Mari also suggests that she’d potentially be a good candidate for providing Mium stabilization. It’s not clear exactly how well the two will get along after a proper introduction, but she seems to have a decent understanding of stuff and so far seems about as sane as anyone.
      
      If we’re not talking about Mari, I’d be dubious. None of the other established characters from Central seem at all like Team Peter candidates.
      
      I don’t see Naomi making a good case for her getting an implant. She already has power and giving Mium access to that much could be dangerous. That having been said, one test before doing an experimental procedure on a loved one is still pretty risky, and Naomi does seem to have a super hero complex. She could already have an implant, and be able to somehow harness it for a bit more of that impressive amount of ‘up’ she’s displayed.
      
      But Naomi lacks a certain amount of discipline that would be needed to really learn the implant well enough to be any kind of a check on Mium’s use of it. Sure, maybe while she’s slacking on her other studies, she’s dutifully doing that. But I would think that would not be in conflict with her other studies. Rather, it would encourage them.
      
      So long as we’re proposing people for this, I’d propose Magnolia. If anyone could come to terms with such an implant quickly, she’d probably be on the list, given her keen awareness of Eidos. That would absolutely be a gamble, given her allegiance with and employment by Anola. However, I see her as probably being one of the safest established characters who aren’t already on team Peter. This could all be the devil you don’t know situation, but I really am not comfortable with the devils we do know.
      
      Longer term, yeah, it is important to him that Mium stays stable, and Miko is helpful for that. Using Mium to get revenge on anyone who managed to end Miko would absolutely not be helpful for that, but he’d do it anyway.
      
      Exactly what Peter would intend *after* getting revenge would likely be less important than Peter would like, as he’d probably have a very advanced rather out of control SMAI on his hands who would have had the time to figure out how to keep Peter’s Eidos key.
      
      As such, Miko getting killed is likely to be a game over scenario, unless Peter already has a backup Eidos key available for Mium.
      
      Kally being ended would go slightly better, in that Mium would still have that stablizing influence, and Peter wouldn’t have wittingly slaved himself to Mium and Miko would be sure to keep a separation if she could. Admittedly, she may be headed down a path to slaving herself to Mium anyway, or otherwise going down the Mir path.
      
      How Peter would respond to Marigold’s death is hard to predict, because she’s had so little panel time, and almost none of it with Peter. They do seem close, so he could lose it a bit.
      
      It’s my impression Peter wouldn’t go crazy at the loss of his other relatives, Kally’s relatives, or Naomi or her friends or family. That’s not to say they’re not important to him, just that his sanity is more important to him. He’d certainly react and take measures in response to them, but it would all be in his normal detached, calculating manner.
Jindra34

August 17, 2021, 12:40 am | # | Reply

Dendrin, maybe consider the scale of believablility you are struggling with on the nukes claim. And consider that it probably applies just as well to Tom. People who can make that kind of (potential) bluff completely straight faced are terrifying.

And man, getting shot seems to have made Weber a good deal more tactical. Or maybe willing to apply tactics fully.