Comic for Thursday, November 2nd
Most of the facilities being effectively evicted from Malsa are actually PACT Special Operations site, as they operated on “IDS” Territory. With the Consul’s revoking the the Interdimensional Treaty, there is no longer – according to Malsa – such a thing as IDS Territory in Malsa, thus Malsa can – according to Malsa – freely enter these zones with Malsa warrant rather than an IDS Approved Warrant.
Technically speaking this is the same as evicting. The actual IDS were evicted, but in theory many of these facilities could continue to operate. In practice, however, it seems unlikely they would accept the new terms, as for the most part PACT regards the local authorities with roughly the same contempt the IDS does.
Realistically, while the IDS might be able to pull out over night if they’d set their mind to it (it seems that Arron intended to at least some degree), there was never a realistic shot that PACT could pull out all their facilities covered by the IDT even if they wanted to, which seems unlikely. So the questions really posed were was Malsa going to execute on its self-granted ability to enter formally IDS protected locations, and if they do, is the IDS (or PACT) going to move to protect those locations… and that’s before they even get to that the actually included Arpon in the zone they were “accepting responsibility’ for, which will include the additional question if it seems like that Arpon would let them enter those zones – considering relations started at frosty, most expert analysis would point to “Very Unlikely”.
Ultimately, I don’t know how how much the digression into international politics of the comic is required to understand what happens on page. My goal is that basically none is required – or at least known beyond what’s easy to assemble from the page – but I think some people like to know more, and there is just limited space for such digressions and analysis on panel 😉
Update on November break! I am currently planning on missing four updates, 20th, 23rd, 27th, and 30th. That said, you guys will get something, as I will run Part II of Minus Years – that said, Minus Years updates are half a page now, so it’ll be reduced content. I think you can actually see that bleeding into comics like this one where honestly I basically just tacked two half page comics together 😛 Remember when I said my goal was to keep pages to 6 panels…? 😐 I’m bad at that part.
I’m still toying around with some other ideas. I will have a tablet with me, so there’s a possibility I’ll draw stuff, it’s just a Surface tablet, so the quality wouldn’t even be up to Minus Years spec, that said, I might experiment and play around with a lower-polish tier bonus comic for Patreon or something during that time. I would like to find something that lets me give a little bit more content.
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Knowing Mium’s range of computing access, if he wanted to, he probably COULD be firmware on blenders, and probably has been, for some oddly specific usage, probably data mining (“Is this guy home? Well, let’s see if he’s using his kitchen appliances…”).
I actually sort of viewed is a callback joke to this page:
http://pastutopia.com/?comic=comic-for-friday-december-2nd
The blue assassins girl tells Miko she’s going to shoot her before Mium figures out how to murder her with sentient kitchen appliances. I was never entirely sure how much of a joke that was, but considering that Mium almost murdered her via wirelessly, I think it’s a safe bet he only gets more deadly with a blender.
First time I’ve left a comment, anyway, just wanted to say good stuff. I am in the camp of only understanding the “smart stuff” from the comments (thanks @ferrus, @xspacetrue, @amaranth, and others). Really enjoy the story.
I remember awhile ago you talked about maybe writing a book (I think?), ever consider that more? I feel like I could get a lot more of the depth in book format. I like the spectacle part (am looking forward to seeing Tyler kick some ass here), but I feel like I’m missing a lot by not being super observant or putting fragmented stuff spanning hundreds of pages together.
Don’t put me in the same category as those people, I’m just a trouble maker who likes to blather about the nonexistence intersection philosophy and science.
Don’t sell yourself short. You come up with some interesting concepts and ways of looking at things. You are an important part of the conversations here. 🙂
If Mium were installed as firmware on blenders, so long as he could still talk, I bet he’d be the exact same as he is now: snarky, probably significantly sharper than the user, and in the right circumstances, the most dangerous thing in the room.
The MYM AutoCook Suite. Install in your kitchen, and never have to cook again! An-all-in-one smart kitchen of your dreams*!
*Human taste not accounted for.
Our sentient kitchen product learns your tastes from your facial expressions when you eat its food. Please refrain from judging it until after the facial expression calibration period.
Sorry, but I think if I withhold judgement that long, it will manage to kill me before that period is over. It’s only been three meals, but I can’t help but notice a distinct trend. The first one tasted wonderful. The second, hideous. The third provoked disorienting sensations I did not know I could have and landed me in a hospital. Sorry, just… no. I don’t have many valuables, apart from supposedly that kitchen. It’s convincing as fuck. I think I’ll just not go back there ever. It’ll be easier that way.
P.S. WTF is up with *tasting* blue just by *listening* to it?!? That’s supposed to be some damned literature gibberish, not something that actually happens! Also, literally coughing up one of my lungs was not something I wanted to experience, and I would rather not repeat it.
I’m imagining that as a review, with the short summary being
“Warning: repeated usage may lead to coughing up other lung”
Gotta love the way Mium and his “sister” interact. They’re just like real siblings, constantly snarking at each other.
sibling love, right? it is *adorable*.
“real” “siblings” is a pretty ironic term for them, since they are neither real, nor actually siblings. That said, it is pretty entertaining with a side of very odd.
Ila and Mium are both incredibly fascinating and disturbing characters.
With Ila, there is a clear undertone of a great deal of “sentient” AI problems. Does she actually have free will? She hits that question on the head here, but the answer is deflected. Mium points that she COULD sit here on the couch, but can she really when he knows exactly what to say to make her not want to anymore? The obvious can of worms is, are humans any different? If you know the exact stimulus to input, can there be any doubt of the output?
And Mium, Mium is one of the better representations of AI acting like a person, especially when contrasted with Peter and Ila. Peter is in some was more like the classic AI where he struggles with feelings and understanding humans but is otherwise a very smart human, Ila is the more modern idea of “basically just a human with existential angst”. But Mium, Mium is a different beast. He is alien. There is zero hint of existential angst in him. He does not have doubts, he has probability curves. He changes his personality based on who he is talking to, his weird habits seem fully deliberate, and he is most certainly not amoral, just math-moral. Every time something about him makes no sense, we learn that there is, right in his programming. How odd he acts with Miko? He’s supposed to be her friend, and Miko’s only other friend is Peter. How odd he acts with Ila? He’s suppose to be Ila’s brother, even though as far as he concerned she’s an entirely different species. I am just looking forward to figuring out what the deal between him and Naomi is.
All of my favorite characters in this comic are representations of ideas – Mium, Ila, Rovak, even Peter, Miko and Naomi to a lesser extent.
Your analysis of Ila and Mium seems spot on. However:
Does she [Ila] actually have free will?
It seems safe to say that Ila did not have free will back when she was the puppet of Avon, before MIUM freed her from Dr. Mir’s control. When Naomi first suggested that Ila was Mium’s sister and insisted that they free her, Mium and/or Peter explained that there was nothing to free. At that point, Ila was not sapient. It was fed fake thoughts by Dr. Mir and was unable to distinguish these outside thoughts from her own.
But then, the very notion or definition of “free will” is foggy. What is it, exactly? For that matter, what is sapience or sentience? We haven’t figured those out, either. Any in-depth discussion about these is bound to end in philosophical and religious arguments.
Heck, it was recently argued to the U.N. that chimpanzes and some other primates exhibit strong indicators of sentience and, therefore, should be afforded similar rights and protections as human beings. (Gorillas and chimps can be taught and can communicate in sign language to a startling degree.)
Mium points that she COULD sit here on the couch, but can she really when he knows exactly what to say to make her not want to anymore? The obvious can of worms is, are humans any different? If you know the exact stimulus to input, can there be any doubt of the output?
To suggest that human behavior can be predicted with 100% accuracy as long as the physical, chemical and mathematical nature is fully understood and as long as all variables are accounted for is to suggest that humans are no more self-aware or complex than some very complex computer software we have today. I have no doubt in my mind that this would be a totally unfair comparison.
Myself, I believe that the brain is more than the sum of it’s parts. And I believe that, instead of acting like a computer, the brain is more like a radio antenna that sends to and receives from some non-physical realm where the seat of our consciousness resides. That is, our bodies are like meat-ware virtual reality devices (with local memory cache and simulation software) that our souls control or influence.
Myself, I believe that the brain is more than the sum of it’s parts. And I believe that, instead of acting like a computer, the brain is more like a radio antenna that sends to and receives from some non-physical realm where the seat of our consciousness resides. That is, our bodies are like meat-ware virtual reality devices (with local memory cache and simulation software) that our souls control or influence.
It would seem that the comic makes a potentially similar argument with the eidos key. It never really struck me how much that term sounds like this view until reading this thread.
In your opinion, holding the view that there is a soul, if you can perfectly recreate a human (ala Ila) does it gain a soul? Can something that’s entirely not human (ala Mium) have a soul? In the comic, it seems that Ila has a key and Mium does not.
It gets weirder in that Miko implies that Mium could use her key to wield magic when he hijacks her, but that sort of makes sense as I assume a soul would be additive, as in, anything without a soul + something with a soul would have a soul.
A comic has just made me think more about theology than a childhood of church. To be honest the idea of eidos is the first nonmaterial realm I can sort of buy. It’s the virtual reality/video game analogy that does it, as that’s something I can actually understand and seems plausible.
…Miko implies that Mium could use her key to wield magic when he hijacks her, but that sort of makes sense as I assume a soul would be additive, as in, anything without a soul + something with a soul would have a soul.
I think this explains how Ila could perform magic even before Mium broke Avon’s control over Ila. Back then, she was a mere puppet – she was not sapient. But she could still use magic, implying that she had an eidos key. You may remember that Avon board meeting in which Dr. Mir defended her lab’s funding. It was brought up that Dr. Mir somehow got around the eidos problem. I believe that Dr. Mir gave up her human body (for a cyborg one) in order to solve it. Specifically, I think she created a connection with Ila (perhaps with those Kor’s World devices that Peter played with) to the point of transmitting her thought patterns. Ila could use magic because she was borrowing Dr. Mir’s eidos key.
There seems little doubt that Ila now has a will and personality of her own. All those thought patterns from Dr. Mir may have “taught” Ila’s brain, helping raise it to sapience. Perhaps Ila may still be borrowing Dr. Mir’s eidos key, even if she isn’t ruled by her thoughts anymore? Or, maybe Ila did gain a soul or eidos key of her own?
…if you can perfectly recreate a human (ala Ila) does it gain a soul? Can something that’s entirely not human (ala Mium) have a soul? In the comic, it seems that Ila has a key and Mium does not.
Assuming souls exist, who creates them or how do they come about? When a baby is born, is a new soul born? Or, is it the reincarnation of something old? If life on Earth is something of a test or like the ultimate virtual reality experience, then is a connection established with a soul during conception? What about sentient aliens on other worlds? What about artificial life?
Science does not have the tools or background to deal with such questions. Conventional science goes out of it’s way to avoid woo-woo stuff. Paranormal research is greatly underfunded and frowned upon, as if the public (or those with deep pockets) are afraid of what they might discover and publish.
Conception happens when someone logs on. Death occurs when they log off. If you accept that this world is virtual, why would you assume the causation occurred in this world? People have sex under supposedly the right circumstances all the time and don’t conceive. People have sex under supposedly the wrong circumstances all the time and somehow conceive anyway. The fact is, people are having sex somewhere constantly. So whenever someone chooses to log on, somewhere, there’s hundreds, possibly thousands of opportunities for them. Sometimes they have the means to choose. Other times, they don’t. Ultimate choice, of course, allows one to wait for the right opportunity.
Disclaimer: any resemblance to actual reality is a pure accident. I’m just spit-balling around the concept.
I particularly like the analysis of Mium. If “he” really is like that, and I think he is, then he’s the closest to a true SMAI that we can fathom until some are actually created.
Here’s hoping that they aren’t unleashed without extensive testing, particularly “can’t help everyone” scenarios if they have any compulsion to help humans. If they don’t care about us, things could get even worse. Skynet, anyone?
Ila, on the other hand, is less of an AI than the F5 is, according to Miko. She’s an “artificial human” that Avon trained/programmed to have powerful innate magic and to do what they want her to. True to form, she developed her own interests, and did not return for “deactivation” when she couldn’t accomplish her directives. She’s basically a person with a very nonstandard upbringing, and innate magical talent.
I really like how this “chessmaster” comic is now making us contemplate the very nature of intelligence, and what it means to be human. Kudos to PastUtopia on a truly excellent comic!
the beret on top of the helmet is just so ridiculous. I guess I am glad they are wearing helmets at least, that’s an improvement for most fantasy soldiers.
Agreed, on both points.
Hey, historical armies also had helmet decorations.
https://i1.wp.com/militaryhistorynow.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/20140826_140945.jpg
Practical as fuck. Never heard of the 4th Regiments devastating Unicorn Charge? Other armies used bayonets, but these bad boys knew what was up.
This is obviously a joke. I think.
Panel 10: It looks like the last sentence got cut off and is missing. It’s also missing any sort of closing punctuation.
Panel 12: “You don’t turn extra eyes and ears.” Should probably be “turn AWAY” or “turn ASIDE” or “say no to” or something along those lines.
Ah, yeah. Not sure how that happened. Fixed, thanks 🙂
I find it ironic that using Ghostery blocks your avatar but not mine…
That’s because mine is actually just my Gravatar logo; I don’t have a site specific override, though I post outside of this comic basically never these days.
I see only a single mistake. “You don’t turn down extra eyes and ears”
Fixed, thanks. 🙂
I can’t make a no mistakes page, it would destroy the very basis of Operation Comment Farm… 😛
Mean to presume
(^ panel 11 of 14)