The last two panels take place in the hospital; I realize that we sort of missed a scene where Arkady split off from the rest of the folks in the room to go to the hospital to get patched up. He was probably expected to stay in the hospital from there, but clearly the idea did not appeal to him. Since Ila wanted no part of hospitals he left her Eliana (as we saw earlier), but I doubt he was particularly happy about that, though I reckon he wasn’t left with too many options as far as avoiding the hospital himself.
Arkady’s probably right that showing up to the Family meeting bandaged in and in borrowed clothes from the hospital would be sort of weird, but realistically he just doesn’t want to go.
The tower they are referring to earlier is connected to the hospital, but not really open to just walking through to it, since it’s owned by Regin’s family. He’s just worried about leaving Ila, though he likely suspects that Eliana knows at least something about Ila from the earlier conversation, which is probably why he left her there in the first place. Arkady knows Eliana (and other members of that Family) pretty well, and likely trusts her more than most people. Ashvalt and Regin have been pretty closely allied for a long time even if they have their difference, their kids are largely more closely aligned than they are.
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Am I the only one wondering how the meeting between Tyler and Peter is going to go? Who actually is in charge of the MSB now that Tyler is back up? Tyler definately has the loyalty out of “his” people to get them to do whatever he wants regardless of if he is technically in charge, but Tyler stepped down from his position to help out with the war that is still going on at this point.
But hey, at least Peter doesn’t have to worry about being saddled with a title immediately… (depending on how much Tyler’s investigation pisses off the others).
Peter doesn’t want the job, so he’ll give it up right away. He’ll likely try to hand it back before Tyler is ready for it, if they meet before Tyler’s ready to take that job back (which seems likely.)
Don’t get me wrong. There’s some power that comes with the job, but Peter’s the sort who’s confident about his ability to control the person with the power, and for him, that’s better than wielding the power directly, because it doesn’t come with the responsibility of the power.
Tyler isn’t taking the MSB leadership back, ever. He’s already onto bigger and better.
I don’t know what Peter is doing with it. Probably integrating it with his existing operations, and delegating away any part that seems redundant or distracting.
The difference between us: Is you assume some part of MSB is not redundant to, or distracting from, Peter’s operations. Hence, he will not happily delegate away the whole mess to Tyler.
I stick to my assertion that Tyler is done with the MSB. It served the purpose he needed. He may continue to wield it for a while (as in this comic), but with someone else responsible for day to day operations. A family mage is not going to continue to dabble in something like that. Whether Tyler likes it or not, the Consul promoted him.
Peter doesn’t squander resources. He may not have sought out leadership of the MSB, but having expended the effort to handle it being thrown at him, he’s not going to disband it or discard it until he has someone he controls to promote into his place.
I don’t know. Tyler is moving up in life, I think it’s likely he intends to take the MSB in part with him. A fair number of it’s members are quite loyal to him, and I think part of the subtext of this meeting we are seeing that raw Family power is sometimes trumped by political power. Tyler is a Family of 1 currently, but with the MSB still could wield considerably political power consider it contains some of the best and the brightest.
If you think back to the Tyler vs. Acalia and the Warmage (don’t remember his name), I think Tyler was thinking that he should recruit Naomi, which presumably meant into the MSB
Especially if we consider what the MSB has become under Peter’s watch, the MSB could be one of the strongest organizations in Malsa to wield. Technically the MSB currently has Kally on it’s roster through some shenanigans of Peter’s (she’s being employed through Ryn on behalf of Avon if I recall correctly), as well as Peter, and consequently Naomi and Mium at least unofficially, so it is currently definitely the most powerful organization in Malsa hands down.
If Tyler can find a way to keep Peter, Kally, and Naomi at least nominally on the roster, it’s hands down the most powerful organization he could be the head of. Naomi would probably join on her own as long as it doesn’t conflict with her plans. Amy and Mione themselves aren’t exactly useless either, and I’d guess it has at least a handful of members we haven’t see as much of.
Personally I see Tyler going back to the MSB, but in the sense that MSB will become a more important organization with his ascension to a higher station. It’s still a politically useful tool to have authority with as he shows here.
I’m swayed by Glider’s arguments. Tyler can’t take the M.S.B. back until after the Consul has declared the emergency over. That gives Tyler some time to get used to the current status quo. As the Family head who’s associated with the MSB, Tyler can still wield it and still work with it, which is probably enough for him at the present time.
There are a number of possibilities for moving beyond this point.
The Consul could place Tyler between her and Peter. The Consul had Tyler report directly to her, but Peter’s a very different person. While just acting as an intermediary layer between the Consul and the MSB is not really a good reason to have Tyler not take over the MSB himself, there could be quite a few different things that need somebody else to handle them. It’s my impression that Yoav is near or possibly over the level of work he’s reasonably able to handle. Considering that the current government is new enough that the Consul is still not particularly old, yet is the first consul of the country, it’s not surprising that there would be some important people who have too many job responsibilities to really do. Likewise for the Consul herself.
While I haven’t really felt like there’s really been any romantic tension between Tyler and Amy, there has been, in all of the comic thus far, an obstacle to them having a relationship. At first, Tyler was her boss. Now, Tyler’s duties during the crisis rather preclude romance. Amy appears to be the kind of super-professional person who wouldn’t allow a romance to happen with someone if there’s such a conflict. If Tyler doesn’t resume control of the MSB, either directly or by taking a job between Peter and the Consul, we won’t have either conflict. If there is any interest there, it could make an appearance.
As a Family of 1 (wait, no, 2: Peter’s been named heir, which inherently makes him part of House Weber), it’s probably logical to assume that as soon as the current crisis is resolved, Tyler’s first priority is getting a wife. While this naively sounds a bit like the prior possibility, looking for a potential wife is a very different story than one just turning out to have been there the whole time. This is not to say that Tyler’s eventual choice would necessarily turn out to be someone new to the comic, and it could even be Amy. It’s more along the lines of this being something that we’ve not really seen Tyler really *do*. As far as we can tell, free form socializing really isn’t his thing, although it’s much more his thing than it is Peter’s. To have it be his primary task would be very different for him.
There are many other possibilities, most of which I don’t even have enough hints to properly imagine. From some of the ideas I’ve suggested, I think it’s pretty clear it doesn’t take me a lot of hints to consider something as plausible.
Alright, I can see where you’re going. I’m having a rough time wrapping my head around Tyler being Peter’s boss for any significant period of time. However Tgape’s description of Peter wielding the power holder rather than the power would also make a great fit here. Tyler wouldn’t so much be Peter’s boss, as he would be Peter’s “boss”. Quotes quite relevant.
And that sort of being used in order to achieve some quid pro quo seems to sit just fine with Tyler and the Consul both.
So I guess the next question is, how does Peter extricate himself from all this to go onto the next big thing? Because as far as I can tell, the only social situation Peter doesn’t eventually bail on is Kally.
Sure, he tried once. But it looks like he’s meet his match there.
Just to be clear, in this instance, I don’t think you’re disagreeing with anything I said, you’re just taking the thought further than I did. I get less inside Tyler’s head than you do.
I agree that Peter wouldn’t give up the M.S.B. to somebody besides Tyler, unless Jairin Cao or whomever originally authorized the MSB decided they need somebody new. It is an incredibly useful tool for him, and if he just asks for his superior to name a permanent replacement so he doesn’t need to keep the job, it’s less likely that he’ll get someone as amenable to his suggestions as Tyler was. Sure, Peter’s used to controlling people, but Tyler seemed to be particularly easy to control in the direction Peter wanted, mostly because they had similar goals for the M.S.B. Tyler had *more* goals for them, if I’m not mistaken, but those additional goals weren’t ones that Peter had any objections to.
Um, make that Yaov Cao. I’m not sure where I got the name Jairin from, but in researching my other response just now, I’ve found that the Chief Cao from the early works was very firmly named Yaov Cao when Yaov was (re)introduced at the start of chapter 13.
I don’t think Mr Idunar has any comprehension that Tyler referred to the person who disarmed his niece as the monster, rather than his niece. He also seems to have reacted as if Tyler made a threat of magical puissance, rather than one of investigative might.
I think his attitude is more “the Families are above your laws”. Which is probably historically true in Malsa given their reputation. But now that Tyler is, technically, part of them, and their power compared to the official government is waning/collapsing, probably not so true now.
Not related to the page, but I have just caught up and had some questions, and figure this is where the most people would see them.
Can someone explain the difference between an innate and natural mage? Kally seems like an innate mage (her dragon being a “signature spell”) but is called a natural mage. Tyler also has a “signature spell” (the freezing aura) and is an innate mage, but also can use other magic (repairing a collapsing building, twice, creating the green cylinder).
I just don’t get what the difference between the two terms is and who is what.
Well, as I understand it from the Webber prequel thing…
A natural mage is just that – someone who can access their Eidos key and use magic without having to use an autocaster; they can run the required calculations in their head unaided.
An Innate mage, by contrast, turns that up to 11. They have a signature spell that is always running, even if only at low power, and doesn’t require any calculation to use, so can be used instantly; Webber’s authority over motion within his zone of control is near-absolute; bullets literally just drop out of the air, and freeze over because heat and motion are the same thing at the atomic level. Acalia’s ability to teleport, for which no calculation is known, is her Innate ability, but I don’t think we have been shown any other Innates.
My attempt at this is, an innate mage is able to just cast a limited number of spells, usually just one, but could be two or three. They don’t need training, and just are incredibly good at this ability, but can train in their spell to ungodly levels. It’s unclear if this is something they can do at birth or if it just kicks in at a young age. An innate mage is usually also a natural mage. However, due to their incredible strength in their primary ability, they tend to have a difficult time motivating themselves to really learn magic in general. (Possible exception: I would think if someone had an innate magic ability to perceive magic, this would probably help them learn all kinds of magic that met their interest.)
A natural mage has a talent for magic, such that they can learn it much more rapidly than a normal person. Unless they are also an innate mage, they can’t do any of this without training. A very good natural mage may be able to get as good at a particular spell as an innate mage who was born with that spell and hasn’t really tried to get better at it. Some exceptional natural mages might be able to get slightly better than that. But the innate mage who strives to master their ability will be better than any natural mage who has merely studied that ability with a passion.
A normal person can learn to cast magic, but it’s hard. It’s mostly math, but it’s real time math, and it’s advanced stuff. A normal math major, for example, could do these calculations, but would have a difficult time doing them in time for them to be relevant to any spell. So normal people generally aren’t mages. If they are, they know just a handful of spells, kind of like they were using an autocaster, except a lot slower.
An innate mage has a spell that they can cast innately, without much or any effort. A natural mage can cast anything as long as they have the mental capacity to do so. Some Innate Mages can cast things that no one knows how to cast as a Natural Mage.
A person is born as an innate mage but, depending on talent, can train into an ability to be a natural mage. Those who are innate mages have both an easier and a harder time of qualifying as a natural mage, easier because they already are used to handling Edos but harder because their natural ability is already strong enough that it can be difficult to train up from nothing to use anything else at a comparable level. The highest level mages are almost always BOTH Innate and Natural mages.
Those who don’t train but still have Edos capacity can still utilize that ability without becoming a natural mage by the use of autocasters (which do all the calculations for them). It has not been shown how much capacity varies from normal person to person or if there are any natural humans with zero capacity. At this point all we know is that breeding and training can increase capacity, which can be used for casting both Innate spells and learned ones.
Understanding this depends on understanding that spells in this setting are used by spending Edos (think Mana) and calculating the difference between reality as it is and reality as you want it to be. If you calculate things correctly than you get a magic looking glyph and the effect happens, if not the glyph may or may not start to appear but the effect fizzles waiting the energy spent on it.
Autocasters automate the calculation step, allowing bigger and more consistant output than can be achieved by low end natural mages but loosing speed and versatility when compared to high end mages. Almost everyone we have seen having a major impact on this story is a high end mage.
Those who can affect edos are said to have an “Edos Key”, which is important because AI and non-humans generally don’t have one (which is why MIUM and ILLA are so important as AI) and all humans do.
I think that is everything most important about how magic works in this setting, everything else is specifics of individual character’s abilities or commonly used spells and types of spells.
Really appreciate the in depth answers. Very insightful, and makes me think I missed a few things along the way (been catching up since the holidays when I started reading).
Follow up question: Is Naomi an innate mage? From the answers here that would also make her a natural mage (in ability at least), but does not seem to use other magic.
Was there innate mages on Central before they knew about magic? Wouldn’t innate mages running doing magic sort of blow the cover on that? Actually, are there even any innate mages from Central? I guess all of the ones we have seen are from the new world (I get confused with Tyler because he is a foreigner).
Actually I have a bunch of follow up questions. This is all really interesting, but will try to restrain myself.
The wiki page on Mages in the FSoU wiki lists Naomi as an innate mage.
She demonstrated her ability to do other magic in her magic tennis competition with Kally, using it to put energy on the ball to allow it to break through the barrier that Kally had placed just inside her side of the court. Lisa commented that Naomi sells herself short, as demonstrated by the fact that she’d made it into the class they had together.
As far as magic on Central, there had been mages on Central long before the Incursion. However, they kept to themselves in secret societies, such as the one that Kally and her brother are part of, so there’s two points in time for “knew about magic”. Regardless, it feels to me like there needed to be an innate mage to start, because without that, there would be nobody to train them. Unlike technology, magic is generally speaking not thought of as something that somebody could stumble into. There are some systems where it can happen, but this doesn’t feel like one of them.
Innate mages running around doing magic doesn’t necessarily blow the cover on magic if they’re sufficiently rare and almost exclusively in the secret society families (and thus told about it being a secret that must be hidden fairly early on). People are generally pretty good at disbelieving the obvious that doesn’t agree with what they “know” about the world, and one or two instances of good coverage of a new innate mage would get the attention of the nearest magical society’s recruitment division.
It’s probably worth pointing out that the vast majority of the mages we’ve seen are from somewhere on Palindra.
Central: Kally, Nathan, Sophie, Elizabeth, Sparrow, the IDS SC null mage, and probably at least one other. (I’m specifically not listing people who only use autocasters to do magic.)
Palindra not Malsa: Magnolia, Tyler, Rovak, Kardus, probably Mika,
Palindra unspecified: Jayce, Mir (originally, at least), Hadrian (presumably), Oriah
Malsa: Naomi, Amy, Arkady, Mione, Ashian, Camilla, Marc, Acalia, Lisa, Maia?, Eliana, Saldur, Ashvalt, Idunar, Elmon, Saraine, Nydia, Kahlek, Eliana’s 3 friends
Innate mages: Tyler, Naomi, Acalia, Magnolia
I recognize that Magnolia has not officially been recognized as an innate mage, but I’m pretty certain she is, because her Eidos sight is completely over the top. It’s the sort of ability that many would likely miss as an innate mage ability, because they associate that with showy effects and things which bring up glyph wheels. That said, Magnolia’s added senses *do* when she really focuses. It’s just subtle.
That’s roughly five times as many mages from Palindra, with only three, but probably four or five, innate mages from that bunch. Given that list, I wouldn’t necessarily expect to have seen one of Central’s innate mages yet.
That said, I’m going to toss out a possible candidate for being a Central innate mage: Tom. He’s Nathan’s partner, but seems completely and utterly outclassed by him. Nathan’s the most powerful mage from the IDS we’ve seen (at least, so long as he has his stick, but it’s a good bet he’ll continue to have it), and a contender for most powerful human mage in the entire comic so far (same previso). Tom has a crowbar. That feels like a ridiculous matchup, unless Tom has an ace in the hole. I’m guessing he can do one thing really well.
Tom is probably either the best or second best user of Ellipses we’ve seen (along with Arron being the other contender and potentially the creator of the technique, though that’s very much unconfirmed).
Ellipses is an interesting one as it isn’t confirmed if it’s an innate talent, but I lean toward that it probably isn’t. There’s no indication Kyle has it or can use it, and even if Peter has it seems to be up for debate.
That said, like you, I’m pretty sure there’s more to Tom than meets the eye. He’s been shown sitting on a park bench all night to make sure no one bugs Nathan, despite the fact that he follows Nathan pretty much everywhere and presumable wasn’t getting a lot more sleep than him… which raises the question if Tom even has to sleep (or follows the Naomi schedule of sleeping through meetings instead of at night maybe?)
Further, if that crowbar is “normal” eat my hat. He went back to the sight of an airship explosion to get it. He almost always has it. And lets not undersell that the while he claimed to be outclassed by Naomi he was able to follow her (while she was attempt to fly), hide from her well enough that she had to brute force finding him (something that can probably only be done with fairly ridiculous power), and dodge a few of her attacks reasonable well (even if she was probably not trying that hard).
Not to mention is nearly completely unphased by jumping out of an air ship no parachute, could identify the type of missile used on it while falling out of said airship, and has survived following Nathan around despite Peter’s implication (and every evidence to support) that wherever Nathan goes, bad shit follows (Peter blaming a demon showing up on his door step as typical for Nathan’s involvement).
Arron seemed question that Tom could help him if Atter showed back up (to which Tom seemed to sympathize) he did not actually confirm that, he just said his life would be easier if Nathan asked the same question, and Nathan is unlikely to be so absentminded as to forget Tom is “helpless” if that were true.
We also got a very odd mini-flashback when Tom first appeared that showed that Tom looked considerably more clean cut and suave in the past, and that Kally knew and had a past dislike for him, which certainly suggests that Tom has more to his story (though that definitely could just have been an early hint to Tom’s nature as a spy or use of ellipses to be perceived differently, now that I think about it). Kally could have originally met him undercover when Tom was working with her brother or something.
But still, I think there’s something more to Tom for sure, and being an innate mage is certainly one possibility, though besides ellipses I have no idea what his power would be (and it’s possible that just being very good at Ellipses is enough to qualify him to be Nathan’s partner, after all, Kally and Peter were partners, and Peter has little to know magical talent that we’ve seen, while Kally is rivaled maybe only by her own brother.
I talk with homeless people as part of my daily life. It’s not my job, but I live in a big city, I tend with talk to people, there are homeless people around, so I tend to talk with them. So I know there’s a huge difference between looking like a bum and not having ability. Also, I’m a bit of a fan of Antryg Windrose, from Barbara Hambly’s Windrose Chronicles.
I feel like the term Ellipses user rather than Ellipses caster suggests that it’s a device similar to an autocaster (or possibly a particular autocaster spell), rather than a class of magic or a spell people learn. I get the feeling that it’s a capability that works best if someone acts and dresses like someone safely ignored, which is why Tom goes around looking like a bum. Also why the Malsan authorities know exactly who he is: police don’t see bums as people safely ignored.
But as someone who can generally blend in well enough to sit in on conversations where people are complaining me, and making claims of, “if I ever see that guy again-” without having others call them on it, I feel pretty confident it takes more than just being the best Ellipses user ever to safely follow Nathan around. I mean, splash damage, for one thing.
It’s my guess that the crowbar dispels magic. For example, he used it on Arron’s coat when he noticed that Atter tagged Arron. It’s possible it has other abilities, but it doesn’t look very much like I’d expect an autocaster to look. That said, it wouldn’t be the first magic wand in the shape of a crowbar I’ve read about, if that were the case.
I don’t need to have an idea of what Tom’s ability might be to get the strong feeling that he has one or two, and that he’s really good at it or them. I do understand that generally speaking, some diversity in abilities can help one master any of them. I mean, I’m a programmer with more forgotten programming languages in my past than the number of programming languages I can remember. That said, I’ve also known enough cooks, and saw their skill with one cuisine improve from having exposure to another to know it’s not just a programming thing. Also enough mechanics, yada yada.
So if Tom were a natural mage, it would make sense for him to have a variety of capabilities that we would have seen. If he were an innate mage, on the other hand, while knowing how to cast other things could help with his core ability (or abilities, if he happens to be lucky enough to have two or three), it’s not necessary for him to get to be incredibly good at what comes natural.
I perceive a big difference between the partnership of Kally and Peter and the partnership of Nathan and Tom. Kally was protective of her partner. Nathan did tell Tom when to jump, and slowed his fall so that they both landed safely, but apart from that, it doesn’t *feel* like Nathan’s really looking out for Tom, especially given stuff like Tom’s comment about Nathan not asking that same question.
That wiki page is awesome! I don’t know how I missed that. This is huge.
Thanks for pointing it out, and it looks like I have a whole wiki to read… and I can’t think of much more exciting than that (I’m a little strange that way).
Yes, Niome is an innate user. However, she is different in that she focuses her talent inwards instead of outwards. She is a perfect example of someone who doesn’t care to do the math. Her ability lets her modify how her body reacts and rebuilds itself. She can shrug off most attacks (being shot, stabbed, poisoned), she fought a Kor’s world soldier to the point he almost killed her, instead she faked herself dying, (and called the battle vexing). She hasn’t learned to fly yet, though would like to, and not from a lack of jumping off buildings).
I think Naomi is a classic example of how difficult it is for an inate mage (which she is) to become a natural mage, for which she has the capacity but not the motivation and interest.
Had she been born to one of the ruling families, I suspect she would have been instilled with the discipline to learn the math at a much earlier age. Instead she developed her innate powers to a high level, and now prefers to rely on those rather than do the work necessary to develop the broader powers of a natural mage.
Exactly.
It appears Weber was so wounded he did not directly see Alicia get disarmed but heard an account of it afterword.
Anyone care to guess who is previewed in panel 7. Candidates and why the heavy lift are
– Naomi, because she has learned to train her boost.
– Cecilia and only one side of bar is shown because the other side has more weights, and she is learning to use her bionic arm.
– the prototype VR-Mium was loaded into, re-calibrating its chassis.
It looks like Naomi, but unless she is training her body apart from boosting that is entirely too little weight. I say that because the hands look female-ish, and I can’t think of any female who would have any reason to be there other than Naomi.
Look we don’t know what those weights are made of. Or what the bar is made of. Or if there are other forms of resistance on the setup.
It would make sense to me for a booster to train both with and without boosting. I mean, if I could make myself five times stronger just by thinking about it, each little bit of benefit I can get through physical training can be magnified by a factor of five if I just think about it.
I would expect that the amount of boosting available could also be trained. It’s possible, however, for boosted physical strength to reach a training limit. At or above this limit, it’s simply difficult if not impossible to find materials to train with which are sufficiently durable to withstand your training. That doesn’t mean one can’t train past this point, merely that one needs to train boosting and normal physical strength separately.
It doesn’t seem like that would be a problem – if the amount of boosting you have in place is a product of mental work, the amount of physical effort you exert to lift something doesn’t necessarily matter – it’s the mental effort that you’re exercising at this point.
In this picture, we see muscles in a taut state. Whomever is lifting that weight is physically exerting themselves quite a bit. Based on the size of the muscle, I’d guess the person is a woman, because a cis man who exerted himself enough to lift that much weight would bulk up more than that, unless he had a primary or secondary testosterone deficiency, and I’m not aware of any of the characters being introduced as trans. That just doesn’t seem like a thing in this world. It’s possible they don’t have sufficient privilege to consider such things, or that such issues simply don’t happen in this comic.
It’s my impression that Naomi’s already to the point where she needs to train her boosts separately from her muscles, but this is an amount of weight that would be near her upper limit for her muscles without any boosting. It’s also my impression that Naomi would be extra serious about her training, since she had an encounter with a Kor’s World soldier and got to the point where she felt she needed to play dead.
As such, I’m guessing Naomi.
I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if it were Eliana.
It’d be a bit strange for a mage, but I could see wanting to compensate for (what seems to be) legs that don’t work by maintaining other sorts of training. We also don’t know exactly where she is at present. [We know from today’s commentary and past comics some details, but could still be here.]
Is it my first guess? No, I think I’d go for Naomi first, but it’s not my last guess either.
Naomi’s my first guess. I mean, that looks about like 50 pound weights, so we’re talking about 205 pounds (the bar always has weight).
It’s also the right skin tone to be Magnolia Dai. That would feel like an odd direction to take that character, but she does spend a lot of time in that hospital, and it could just be a hobby that she picked up while waiting around, and slowly built up to this.
I like Naomi for this as well. It would make a good segue into a friend offering advice / exposition scene.
My guess is Naomi too… because she’s one of the main characters and hasn’t been seen for awhile, and Tyler just referred to obliquely in his dialog. So… meta reasons.
Why she’s in the hospital I’m not sure, but there could be a dozen reasons she’d be there, and would have plenty of time to have gotten there from where we last saw her, as I feel like a hefty block of time has passed.
Meta reasons that fit nicely with Past’s MO. Works for me.
Didn’t this story arc start in large part with Peter refusing to ask Mium to intervene, but telling Naomi that he might intervene if she asked?
That alone might be enough for Naomi to be placing herself in Arkady’s path. Or for Mium to have nudged her in that direction.